tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post6527386639311126359..comments2023-07-03T04:21:15.876-07:00Comments on Zero Degrees Calvin: Calvin found the God of the AtheistsEleshahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03764991021577652939noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-86544578048868558642016-02-14T20:12:07.111-08:002016-02-14T20:12:07.111-08:00This made me laugh and cry at the same time. I th...This made me laugh and cry at the same time. I think you've got it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-83594111882747681872016-02-14T17:46:40.083-08:002016-02-14T17:46:40.083-08:00Thank you Sharon and all for this discussion. I ap...Thank you Sharon and all for this discussion. I appreciate the phrase "touched by the hand of God." I ask this question - though it does in fact go beyond a discussion of Calvin's theology and ventures into the world of mission and evangelism, "How can the church invite those who are searching into the conversation?" This is where we may wish to go as the church in the 21st century. richard watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05930228931293631608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-73298750200641400482016-02-13T16:54:31.243-08:002016-02-13T16:54:31.243-08:00Rick, I wonder if our trouble today is more about ...Rick, I wonder if our trouble today is more about agnosticism than atheism? Rather than thinking that God is not in us and we are not in God, I wonder if people just suspend thinking altogether? I laughed aloud when Calvin said, "If, indeed, there were some in the past who deny that God exists, yet willy-nilly they from time to time feel an inkling of what they desire not to believe" (p. 45). It gives me comfort to know that those who spend their time not thinking, could one day find themselves touched by the hand of God anyway.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09803460723648987218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-28815010858182259912016-02-13T16:29:59.493-08:002016-02-13T16:29:59.493-08:00Having worked at a secular university for years, I...Having worked at a secular university for years, I am in the heart of so many claiming to be atheists. While believers are often offended or uncomfortable with this, I am struck with the overall "faith claim" in the very claim that there is no faith. A faith claim, even if it is atheism, reflects the searching for God which, I believe, in itself by definition is indeed a recognition of God. Someone that makes a faith claim of this sort is often really searching often to people who want to prove that God does not exist, which by definition of existence doesn't make sense. What is perhaps a scarier concept is that of nihilism which is nothingness. However, Calvin helps us in his very opening helps us to understand that we can't have self-knowledge unless God is present. So, while we might be able to come up with the theory of nihilism, it cannot be reality if we exist. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-68162433277114064502016-02-13T16:15:22.586-08:002016-02-13T16:15:22.586-08:00I totally agree here. If you are at the place of ...I totally agree here. If you are at the place of contemplating the reality of "no God" then you are indeed recognizing God. You couldn't contemplate the non-existence of something that does not exist. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-42910411866038024802016-02-13T11:38:46.788-08:002016-02-13T11:38:46.788-08:00Your discussion of atheism reminds me of the movie...Your discussion of atheism reminds me of the movie "God's Not Dead." The philosophy professor, Mr. Radisson professes to be an atheist, but in discussion in with his student Josh, admits that instead he actually hates God. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05888152571622743765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-33293490703442293592016-02-13T09:31:00.886-08:002016-02-13T09:31:00.886-08:00Rick, thank you for this discussion on atheism. I ...Rick, thank you for this discussion on atheism. I think it's interesting that the Old English form of "good" is "god" (with an accent above the "o.") I also think that it's interesting that there are almost 60 different definitions of "good." This says to me that this subject isn't quite as black and white as we would like for it to be, and I think that my colleagues have spoken to this in their comments. Thanks again for this discussion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03543979182146938361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-6163763218238639532016-02-12T10:54:40.126-08:002016-02-12T10:54:40.126-08:00My favorite exploration of the (im)possibility of ...My favorite exploration of the (im)possibility of unbelief is the 1997 Jodie Foster movie, Contact. I recommend it if you wanted to start this conversation in a youth group or adult ed class. Theatrical trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRoj3jK37VcEleshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03764991021577652939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-48754404145546465152016-02-11T18:41:48.603-08:002016-02-11T18:41:48.603-08:00Jerry, That's an interesting thought, the idea...Jerry, That's an interesting thought, the idea that the majority of people are going to do good today. I wonder though if there are people who wake up and never even think this way. Maybe they don't consider these possibilities. Maybe for them, good is self-relative i.e. only they are good. This could be what calvin speaks of when he speaks of the self-righteousness of people. richard watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05930228931293631608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-17531419454144954872016-02-11T13:51:29.067-08:002016-02-11T13:51:29.067-08:00Rick, this is an interesting post for wildcard car...Rick, this is an interesting post for wildcard card. I agree that the topics of the existence of God, the knowledge of God, and knowledge of self can be discussion starters. I also agree that they could promote an agreement or two. It makes we wonder if we think too much of our modern world and all that it has to offer. After just brushing the surface of the Institutes, I think I begin to see many similarities. Chapter 1 of the Institutes, “we always seem to ourselves righteous and upright and wise….” (section 2), seems to answer the question of why things go down hill. I have always believed that the majority of the people in the world wake up and tell themselves they are going to good today. The problem is that everyone has different knowledge (or maybe perspective) of what good is. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07027020693440934521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-65631002849836729642016-02-11T13:16:34.438-08:002016-02-11T13:16:34.438-08:00Atheism itself is a kind of religion. It is strang...Atheism itself is a kind of religion. It is strange when you think about it. It is a denial of the existence of God. If there is no God, why bother denying the existence of a supreme being. If there is not one, what difference could it make? What is the point? It would be like denying the existence of "pargumaflis" (a word I just made up). It would seem to me that atheism is in a sense much ado about nothing. RaymentWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03835017159257134157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-24096242576257080972016-02-10T17:02:55.018-08:002016-02-10T17:02:55.018-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15046897135353951620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-51394258600559960962016-02-10T16:57:29.859-08:002016-02-10T16:57:29.859-08:00Whether one be an atheist or a believer in a creat...Whether one be an atheist or a believer in a creator always come down to a moment of suspension of disbelief. For the atheist, they look at the world and believe that it did. The lightening bolt hit the magic soup of right chemicals at exactly the right moment. For the believer in God,they look at the world and cannot believe this all happened by chance, all this was planned and put in order. Both require a leap of faith. And is not faith an concept of God? Is commitment to unbelief, still an act of self-knowledge? If knowledge of God is light, then atheism is darkness. It is a refusal to look upon 'the face of God'. And as Calvin states in Book 1 Chapter 1 section 2, "Again it is certain that man never achieves a clear knowledge of himself unless he has looked upon God's face, and then descends from contemplating him to scrutinize himself." Is it then possible for one who dwells in darkness to move into the light until they have considered the possibility of God and seek to see the face of God? <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15046897135353951620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-49369545892105851842016-02-10T16:28:36.652-08:002016-02-10T16:28:36.652-08:00Rick your analysis makes me wonder how deep this i...Rick your analysis makes me wonder how deep this integral self-knowledge of God runs in us. Believing we still need regeneration by the Holy Spirit to “know” Christ I would have to think this self-knowledge would have to be rather general in context.Dan Schererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03972495102884908120noreply@blogger.com