tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post5016963009724924347..comments2023-07-03T04:21:15.876-07:00Comments on Zero Degrees Calvin: Lane Chapter 29 The Sacraments in GeneralEleshahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03764991021577652939noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-39810391546455873362016-05-09T08:46:40.691-07:002016-05-09T08:46:40.691-07:00To What extent can we speak of a confirmation of f...To What extent can we speak of a confirmation of faith through the sacraments? This is a question that most people of the faith struggle with. But you have given very good and clear answers. “For first, the Lord teaches and instructs us by his Word. The scriptures teaches us to understand about sacraments. Secondly, he confirms it by the sacraments. In doing the act, we are truly experiencing it. Without the Holy Spirit all we do will be in vain. Finally, he illumines our minds by the light of his Holy Spirit and opens our hearts for the Word and sacraments to enter in, which would otherwise only strike our ears and appear before our eyes, but not at all affect us within.”<br /><br />Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03675591716322072352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-52423794956184097522016-05-09T08:46:31.755-07:002016-05-09T08:46:31.755-07:00To What extent can we speak of a confirmation of f...To What extent can we speak of a confirmation of faith through the sacraments? This is a question that most people of the faith struggle with. But you have given very good and clear answers. “For first, the Lord teaches and instructs us by his Word. The scriptures teaches us to understand about sacraments. Secondly, he confirms it by the sacraments. In doing the act, we are truly experiencing it. Without the Holy Spirit all we do will be in vain. Finally, he illumines our minds by the light of his Holy Spirit and opens our hearts for the Word and sacraments to enter in, which would otherwise only strike our ears and appear before our eyes, but not at all affect us within.”<br /><br />Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03675591716322072352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-22396728176717885662016-05-03T08:32:49.617-07:002016-05-03T08:32:49.617-07:00Thanks Tim, I too loved this chapter in Calvin an...Thanks Tim, I too loved this chapter in Calvin and like Sharon appreciated much of the imagery Calvin provided. I have long spent time thinking about the 7 sacraments of the Roman Catholic tradition and responded to this in another blog, but I am particularly moved by the relationship of our practices to Christ. "the Lord willed to be ordinary [the sacraments] in the church in order to nourish his worshipers and servants in one faith and the confession of one faith." 4.14.19. The practice of these over and over provide a unique balance of ritual and awe. It is the "grace of the Spirit" that comes through these beautiful ceremonies, and I am struck by the commonness of them and the ongoing awe they evoke. <br /><br />I am blessed to be in a church with regular baptisms, usually 2 a month which makes it sometimes more frequent than the monthly ceremony of the Lord's Supper. Also, as the confirmation leader I am regularly referring to baptism, so I guess I see significance of baptism preached frequently in my church. I remind my confirmands regularly about the promises made by their parents on their behalf and those made by the congregation. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-32533854913036890862016-05-03T08:19:19.066-07:002016-05-03T08:19:19.066-07:00WOW! Really? WOW! Really? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-22388328475402071212016-05-03T08:18:29.901-07:002016-05-03T08:18:29.901-07:00I love the reminder! The church I grew up in did ...I love the reminder! The church I grew up in did this, and I had forgotten about it. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-10126799599070418822016-05-03T08:16:23.280-07:002016-05-03T08:16:23.280-07:00We are blessed to have both weekly and monthly com...We are blessed to have both weekly and monthly communion which really gives me a chance to reflect on it. In our 8:00 am chapel service, communion is served every Sunday. I love the ritual of this is our service and it gives the day a completeness. On the other hand, the monthly communion in 10:30 worship is a BIG DEAL and there is an air of anticipation around the service. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-44429921977420370952016-05-03T08:04:31.849-07:002016-05-03T08:04:31.849-07:00This is an interesting response in lieu of the wil...This is an interesting response in lieu of the wildcard discussion started by Claire who questioned the reverence in which our churches today are reverent in performing the sacraments. Apparently, there is some disagreement about our success and failure in this Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13034392446757561258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-83294054296286624002016-05-02T14:34:03.939-07:002016-05-02T14:34:03.939-07:00This is a very thorough summary Tim. Thank you co...This is a very thorough summary Tim. Thank you condensing it down and narrowing in on the key features. You ask some great questions. I think every pastor would answer that we are indeed administering the Sacraments with enough time for contemplation and still concluding the worship service in a timely fashion. Our military town has a few time-keepers (although I don’t think military towns are the only ones with time keepers). It may be a tough reality that we endure. I like what Rick said in an earlier post about pointing to the Sacraments during his sermons. I think we have all seen this done well. Other times, I think we have seen it completely missing from the sermon. Acknowledging the Holy Spirit is essential for me when I administer the Sacraments. It becomes a reminder that God is with us through the Spirit. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07027020693440934521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-7943215382823795012016-05-01T06:12:14.784-07:002016-05-01T06:12:14.784-07:00Great summary, contemplation, reverence, and awe i...Great summary, contemplation, reverence, and awe in partaking of the supper leaves me re-energized and is always my favorite Sunday. Although I still remember visiting a church where the pastor actually added to the words of institution the Lord stopped by Publix for the bread. As the congregation went forward I left the building not believing what I had just heard. I hope that is not the way of many churches but I do think we need more time in general for some serious contemplation for such a significant sign that seals us in Christ.Dan Schererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03972495102884908120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-56384445414288304682016-04-29T12:56:12.036-07:002016-04-29T12:56:12.036-07:00This discussion reminds me - somewhere along the l...This discussion reminds me - somewhere along the line, I had a pastor who would put a reminder about Communion in the bulletin a week ahead of time. It was a prompt that we should begin preparing ourselves to partake in the celebration during the upcoming week. We were to make time during the week to contemplate the significance of this sacrament. (Now, I know we celebrate Communion the first Sunday of every month, but this reminder was very useful:))Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05888152571622743765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-44713049712349873832016-04-28T06:38:55.740-07:002016-04-28T06:38:55.740-07:00Thank you for the post, it clarifies my thoughts a...Thank you for the post, it clarifies my thoughts after the reading..<br />The 'All are Welcome' to the table, in the offering of the Sacrament of Communion has (in some reformed denominations and in some services) lessened, in my opinion the reverence given to the elements and the partaking. If we are partaking in the Bread of Life given in the Sacrament of the Table, there should be words in acknowledgement of this powerful Spiritual fountain from heaven to us and through us to each other. Reference to the Holy presence and the Gift of Life within the offering. For me, and I think too for Calvin the baskets of oyster crackers beside cups of grape juice for the self service of communion lacks the significance of Communion and too the expedient manner in which Communion is served even with Servants present. A pause for contemplation, as Laurie mentions above is important to me, and brings the right attitude toward the Table. This contemplation should be done by leadership as an example for the congregation.Claire Brettellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03714718939189642214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-7399385424284612212016-04-28T03:08:11.416-07:002016-04-28T03:08:11.416-07:00Tim, thanks for your nice review of the chapter! Y...Tim, thanks for your nice review of the chapter! Your questions are poignant for me because I don’t think we are doing a good job in “preaching” the institutions or in pointing to the sacredness and “awe” of the presence of the Holy Spirit in the sacraments. This is a good wake up call for me and what I can bring to the team as we prepare for our upcoming worship services. We definitely have time for contemplation during Communion because of the mechanics of serving everyone. There is no “time” allowed for contemplation in a Baptism. With Baptism, we are adding an element to an already packed service. Because our service is televised—for our homebound members, we are strictly limited to one hour. We don’t leave a lot of room for the Spirit to move! The Spirit can have one heck of a party, as long as she gets it done within the window of 9:00-10:00 a.m. EST.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10102035312463554536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-9409309405897962712016-04-26T16:42:07.225-07:002016-04-26T16:42:07.225-07:00Hi Tim,
Thank you for those quotes and your summar...Hi Tim,<br />Thank you for those quotes and your summary of the meaning associated with sacraments. Good job! I would also like to second Sharon's comments that my experience is that more preaching time is spent on the Lord's Supper than Baptism. However as a recognition of the need to connect these sacraments to our entire faith journey, I attempt to make a connection between each sacrament and the proclamation of the gospel as often as possible. Sermons can cause us to reflect on our baptism and the Lord's Supper. Though Calvin does not consider it a "sacrament" even the proclamation of the Word can be thought of as a sacrament which communicates God's Word to a congregation. The spirit is active in each of these events, baptism, Lord's Supper, and the preaching of the Word. As leaders in the church we must try with the help of God's Holy Spirit to draw the connection for those in the pews.<br />Thank you also for your connection to the Holy Spirit in Calvin's writings.richard watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05930228931293631608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-48586467585293269572016-04-26T07:08:24.127-07:002016-04-26T07:08:24.127-07:00Tim, I also highlighted those quotes - I think you...Tim, I also highlighted those quotes - I think you captured the essence very well. I was particularly enamored with Calvin's talk of the Spirit as you quoted above, the Spirit is the conduit between us partaking of the sacrament and God. (4.14.9)<br /><br />I have to say that I was a little worried when Calvin decided to forego brevity :) That usually means that some of the "awe" is displaced. However, Calvin often used images (paintings of life, pillars of faith, mirrors, etc.) because words just can't do justice to the covenanting that occurs, as you point out, Bill. <br /><br />I know from other reading that Calvin would like weekly communion, but with our current worship constraints, I like monthly communion for the opportunity it allows the preacher to preach on the sacrament and the time that can be used in the rite for contemplation. I would say that more time is spent contemplating during our Lord's Supper than Baptism, but that may just be my experience. In the churches that I have attended with weekly communion, I rarely hear it preached.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09803460723648987218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3336172740435891338.post-3639328236534314202016-04-25T06:31:46.908-07:002016-04-25T06:31:46.908-07:00Hey Tim, nice summary of the chapter. Good pull-qu...Hey Tim, nice summary of the chapter. Good pull-quotes. Reading this and contemplating your questions got me to thinking that a lot of our relationship with God is about covenants and agreements. We have all kinds of covenants in the OT and a big one with all humanity in the NT.<br /><br />I think we can view sacraments as covenants or agreements on a personal level between us and God. The sign and seal verbiage in Calvin is a good indication that this is also his view. In Business law, in order for a contract or legal agreement to be binding there has to be a "meeting of the minds". Though I put it in rather secular terms I think this is what you are asking with your questions. Are we getting a meeting of the minds between God and ourselves when sacraments are being administered?<br /><br />If not, the problem certainly lies on our side. But on a positive note, I think, generally, most people who are faithfully attending church are there because they want a connection with God. Most churches I have attended, make a conscious effort to make the experience of the sacrament one that is meaningful. This includes a deal of contemplation and awe. Although, I have seen exceptions. One Sunday the presiding pastor was not feeling well and I thought his summary of the words of institution were rather perfunctory. Yes, he said them with a mumble and did not explain them with clarity in his usual manner. But this was the exception rather than the rule.<br /><br />In summary. Yes, I think we are conscientious about keeping the sacraments Holy and ensuring that there is some kind of meeting of minds between God and us.RaymentWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03835017159257134157noreply@blogger.com